When people discuss the challenges facing EU nations, Italy is often left out of the conversation. However, hopefully that will change thanks to Daniela Bartalesi-Graf’s efforts. Bartalesi-Graf is a lecturer at Wellesley College, and her research interests primarily focus on 20th century Italian culture. She came to the U.S. over twenty years ago, initially planning to attend graduate school to study classics. Those plans, however, were put on hold with the arrival of her child and the conclusion that studying classics and tending to a newborn would be too much to handle. Instead, she ended up deciding to spend more time delving into modern Italian culture and teaching Italian language at Wellesley College. In the process, she has written or co-authored three books and constructed a massive open online course (MOOC) for Italian language through edX Edge at Wellesley.

One of those books, Italy from Fascism to Today, traces the construction of modern Italy after WWII. Italy rarely seems to be part of the same clique as France, Germany, or Spain that remain on people’s consciousness abroad, and this is strange considering the fact that Italy faces many of the same challenges. “Italy is becoming a country of immigration– of mixed migration and immigration. A lot of immigrants are coming into Italy so Italy is becoming a multicultural, multi-religious, multi-ethnic society with people coming from Northern Africa, the sub-Saharan continent, the Middle East.”

According to Bartalesi-Graf, Italians deal with those issues slightly differently than other European nations, and it’s partially because Italy has never had the same long colonial history that other European nations have had. This in turn has affected the way that they deal with immigration. She says, “Italy is probably the country that had to adjust the quickest to this new phenomenon. Other countries because of their previous colonial powers have had immigration since the 50s. Italy had less time to adjust.”

On the other hand, she points out that in some ways, Italy’s immigrants are much more integrated than immigrants in other countries like France, where many immigrants are relegated to banlieues and are somewhat segregated. “In Italy, this doesn’t happen as much. There are mostly mixed neighborhoods. In general, you have neighborhoods, especially in the outskirts of cities, where retired Italians live, lower-class Italians, and immigrants all live together.”

This integration is certainly a unique outcome for new immigrants to a country, though Bartalesi-Graf also adds that that doesn’t mean that immigrants to Italy don’t experience challenges when they arrive. One of the biggest barriers to cultural integration for immigrants is Italians’ own pride in their native culture. “It’s a culture where there are very defined ideas about how you should eat, divide your day, what the meal times are. These are very ingrained, fixed ideas. Italians have a hard time adjusting and changing their ideas about different or possibly better ways of dealing with meals and stuff like that.”

These seemingly small cultural differences create barriers between cultures and have caused divisions between Italians and immigrants, particularly in the name of preserving culture. The country has seen inroads made by small political parties such as Lega Nord (“The Northern League”) that attempt to keep immigrants out of Italy. Lega Nord is well-known for exhibiting xenophobia and propagating hateful views, with some of their ads featuring racist caricatures. “Many Italians want to protect their culture. This movement [Lega Nord] is manipulative in many ways that plays on fears of losing jobs and the economic crisis.”

However, it’s somewhat too simplistic to say that Italians are simply racist or xenophobic like in other countries. Unlike other places around the world, Italians’ aversion to immigrants does not appear to be racially motivated. “I think it’s less racially based. For example the groups that are most discriminated against are Albanians and people from Romania. They’re not necessarily as distinguishable from Italians and they ignite some irrational fears [in Italians.]”

That fear for Italian culture is an awful shame, because as Bartalesi-Graf points out at the end of the interview, there’s a great deal to be proud of. When asked what aspects of Italian culture she is most proud of, she says, “The arts. The incredible patrimony of the arts. The richness of the arts.” Italy is not a stagnant country, and unfortunately it is often forgotten in the discussion of EU nations. But it is a country with a rich historical legacy trying to regain its footing while facing new challenges. The question that remains for Italians is how to preserve a storied past and create a future that includes more voices and experiences, and how to create a new cultural legacy. Professor Bartalesi-Graf will surely be a part of that discussion, and her work will hopefully allow people to put Italy back into a larger consciousness.

“This is what I do as resident director,” Dr. Serigne Ndiaye says with a little laugh when one of his teachers interrupts our interview with paperwork to sign. With a quick glance, he whisks his signature across the page. And, without skipping a beat, we’re back to talking about his work organizing study abroad in Dakar, Senegal.

“Our mission … is to help people acquire knowledge and an understanding to live in a globally interdependent world,” he says in a matter-of-fact tone that elides the current threats to study abroad enrollment in Senegal and Africa. Despite more than ten years of increased student interest, recent problems on the continent and misconceptions about Africa have gravely affected the number of American students who elect to study in this part of the world.

Ndiaye has been working as the resident director of CIEE (Council for International Educational Exchange) in Dakar, Senegal over the past 12 years. He has mediated cultural differences between his American students and his Senegalese professors for just as long. It hasn’t always been an easy journey, but one gets the sense that Ndiaye has always enjoyed the challenge. In part because of the Ebola epidemic, this past year has been particularly trying.

“There is too much hype. This semester, I tell my students that I am really proud of you. That you went beyond to break down stereotypes,” Ndiaye states as he sits up in his chair. He is an ardent proponent of cultural exchange as a necessary part of modern education. As the world has become increasingly globalized, it’s no surprise that intercultural relations are being integrated into nearly every part of our lives. He sees no reason why we can’t transcend these misconceptions.

Once an international student himself, Ndiaye did his undergraduate and graduate work at Université Cheikh Anta Diop in Dakar before receiving his doctoral degree from Emory University in Atlanta. He then taught comparative and post-colonial literature at universities in the United States before taking this post in Dakar.

Asked about the challenges of his job, Ndiaye highlights his most salient concern: pernicious misconceptions and mis-education about his culture. This trend of negative stereotypes that discourage students and their advisors from exploring Senegal has been difficult for him. Ndiaye’s professorly demeanor cracks a little when he says, “What I am hoping is that people just understand Senegal or Africa is just like any other place that consists of people who … are invested in the development of their country and their continent. [Not] this wasteland like it is portrayed… [There] are people who are interested in shaping their own culture and not necessarily leaving it to others to shape it. Which has been the case throughout Africa’s history.”

Ndiaye has faith that youth activism and programs like his will encourage a generation of globally aware people to take action to change the narrative. In his recent talk at CIEE’s conference on intercultural higher education, “Cinema, Politics, and Study Abroad” highlighted the importance of confronting these preconceptions. He is no idealist, however. Ndiaye is aware that few of his students will become full-time activists. But, he knows that what they have learned while in Dakar will make them game-changers in their own way.

Edited Transcript – Interview Conducted April 9th 2015

Erika Liu: To start off, could you tell me a little bit about what you do for CIEE and what have been your experiences organizing study abroad programs?

Dr. Serigne Ndiaye: I run the whole program. [Laughs] I oversee operations in Senegal. This means making sure that everything runs smoothly and in the spirit of our mission, which is to help people acquire knowledge and an understanding to live in a globally interdependent world. My job here is to make sure that we follow that mission as best as we can.

EL: Along that mission, what do you see students taking away most from this program, beyond and including the academics?

SN: Exposure to cultural difference and the ability to absorb lessons learned in a challenging environment. I think when you are Senegal – and you might be a better position to tell me what you learned – you come out better equipped to face many challenges. You learn to be flexible. You learn to patient. You learn to find different ways to respond to difficulties. The ability to look at reality and find different options – the response isn’t just to say things aren’t going my way so I’m frustrated. Frustration doesn’t lead you very far. You have to discover the resources, the inner resources to turn things around. That is to say, turning disappointments into appointments. [Laughs] I believe that it all caused by the exposure to situations that may or may not be challenging and, also, to situations that let students pull from their inner resources to adapt. These situations of cultural discomfort can be applied to your whole lives back in the States, professional or personal. You will find a way to transcend those situations where all doors are closed. Overcome that challenge. I think whatever you did, wherever you pull your resources from, you can put that to use in new situations.

EL: What are some of the struggles or challenges you have faced as the director of CIEE Dakar and as an intercultural educator?

SN: Reconciling the reality of one culture versus another culture. Not necessarily with ease and comfort, but realizing that that has its own compromises and challenges. We always struggle with the norms of each culture. Why respect these norms? How do you convey that message of mutual respect without simply dictating the terms? For example, the same issues of security there are not the same issues here. People dramatize the things that are not a big deal here. But also, those peopsle can’t take some things lightly just because they don’t believe that it was a problem before coming to Senegal. Also, there is the challenge of keeping the balance that life does not always follow a planned schedule. The hypercontext of the U.S. way is to plan everything out and be on time. In Senegal, we are more flexible. That is a big difference in culture, which many American students struggle to learn. It is a challenge to reconcile the academic of what is outside the U.S. – in this case, in Senegal – with American students. We don’t want our professors to drop their teaching philosophy, but we want to see how to combine that with the U.S. philosophy. Mediating between the two academic cultures, we use student evaluations and create an action plan. We share the evaluation with professors. We don’t want to sacrifice what the professors believe. It is not just what we believe, but also what they believe.

EL: I’d like to visit these ideas of security later. Out of curiosity, what other kinds of feedback do you get about professors?

SN: Sometimes the feedback shows a need for more variety. More precision about assignments, deadlines and so on and so forth. In the last couple of years, things have improved tremendously. In the past, there was a lot of miscommunication.

EL: What would you say has changed to make this turnaround happen?

SN: What is changing is the professors’ need to understanding, better understanding of student expectations. Their ability to adapt to a more American system, which may or may not be a good thing. I’m withholding judgment on that. [Laughs} But, at least in terms of student satisfaction, we have made big steps towards creating a happy environment for students. For example, American students ask, “What will be on the test?” And Senegalese professors say, “Why would I tell you what would be on the test? Would it be a test?” [Laughs] That is one of the big differences between American and Senegalese education. I try to see how these two apparently conflicting views can be mediated. I also participate in trying to make each party understand what they need to do and finding that middle ground. In the US, everything seems to be measured. There, you have expectations of grades, what you are going to be tested on. Here, testing comes from the element of surprise. You have to know everything.

EL: That is very interesting, and very true. I definitely experienced this clash when I was studying abroad with CIEE. I was wondering if I could now turn the focus to something that I know you are involved in and do a lot of research on: Y’en a Marre – a media-based youth political organization that began from the controversy around Abdoulaye Wade. I remember watching their documentary, a documentary about them, in class while I was in Senegal. Why is it important for American students to see this part of Senegalese culture and media?

SN: When students come to Senegal or go abroad, and this is something that I try for more and more again, it is not necessarily to have the same experience they would have in the U.S. it is also to enrich their experiences. To help the students increase self-awareness and values of whom they are, through personal experience created by their own culture and the Senegalese culture. This is done through a better understanding of the people they interact with, the people of Senegal. The culture of Senegal. The world of Senegal. In order for them to try to make connections between their own world and the world of the people they are trying to share a space with and to understand those people better. And for me, the work that Y’en a Marre does participate in: one, breaking boundaries and two, sharing stereotypes of all the people and all the cultures in particular people from Africa. This is just one instance of the great and wonderful things that are being done on the continent by youth. And especially since our students are young people coming to Senegal who are, for the most part, also trying to make a difference. By seeing changes in their own lives they will also make changes in the world. These are ways for us to make connections.

EL: Why do you think that media, especially music and videos, are important to activism in Senegal?

SN: In Senegal, people tend to say that music is for young people, particularly rap music. The thing with music is that it transcends. Especially when the lyrics are important. In the case of Senegal, we have a population that is overwhelming young. That medium is relevant to convey messages. It is also what people use to talk about large cases of interest to the general population. So when you combine the traffic of a large part of the population – that is to say youth – with the rest of the population who may be more curious about the topics these people are discussing. They are thinking of issues of social responsibility, issues of importance to the general population. Music makes it easy to connect.

EL: Are you saying that Y’en a Marre does reach an older audience?

SN: To reach the general population, they also use all the forms. They use press conferences. They use door-to-door campaigns to sensitize people to getting involved. Music is just one aspect. They lead the way, they participate by asking, “What can we do as citizens? What can we contribute?” To all the people. They give information and access to these issues to all the citizens.

EL: Y’en a Marre started as an organization protesting a political regime, how have you seen this organization evolve?

SN: It has evolved a lot. If you look at what happened in Burkina Faso with Balai Citoyen, it is mainly the work of Burkinabe youth. There are tight connections with Y’en a Marre. Y’en a Marre folks were arrested in Democratic Republic of the Congo because they were invited by another activist group. And, the Congolese government is trying to say that these people instill instability in these countries. We can say that Y’en a Marre is spreading. They exist around the continent. It is an evolution of the activism scene. How do we make the young Africans take ownership of the future by getting involved in? It is not just a Senegalese thing, but also an African movement

EL: Do you see Y’en a Marre attracting people around the continent?

SN: It is very attractive. There is an environment where the laws of good governance are not being respected, where your future is in jeopardy and your future is not secure. You have to rebel against the status quo. These people are taking into account what has to be done. You cannot sit and stay passive and expect that your future positively. Young people have always understood this. If we believe that we are the future, they cannot sit around.

EL: Who are these young people joining Y’en a Marre?

SN: They come from all walks of life. They’re trying to create chapters around the continent and membership is free. Anyone who feels that this is his or her fight is free to join. It’s not confined to professionals or students. And maybe that membership can grow with more communication, but it is already free to join.

EL: What do you hope is conveyed about Senegal and Africa through Y’en a Marre’s programs?

SN: What I am hoping is that people just understand Senegal or Africa is just like any other place that consists of people who want something for their countries, for themselves, for their families. They are invested in the development of their country and their continent. Senegal or Africa is not this wasteland like it is portrayed. It is a way for them to convey a realistic message of what it is: A continent of people who have their struggles, just like any other people. If it helps break down stereotypes, not idealize anything. To look at the picture and realize that there are people who are interested in shaping their own culture and not necessarily leaving it to others to shape it. Which has been the case throughout Africa’s history. Y’en a Marre represents the conviction that Africa should be built by African through their beliefs in their own values.

EL: What do you hope that students take away from learning about Y’en a Marre?

SN: Every context is different. Y’en a Marre fights in a struggle depending on the context in which they live. I am not suggesting that students in this program will be activists just like Y’en a Marre, no. I’m trying to say how people can really identify with a cause in life. And understand what their mission and pursue that mission. It does not have to be in field of political activism. It can be in the field of personal activism. It is getting in touch with what is important to us. That is what we try to do and we don’t want everyone just to follow examples. I don’t think that every student will become an activist. But, you are all leaders – maybe not leaders of politics but leaders in your personal lives. I hope students will understand the level of commitment that it takes to exact change in the world. These youth are in the same position, wanting to change their lives and they change the world. Direct impact on how the world is shaped.

EL: I would like to end this interview asking a few questions about the recent Ebola crisis that has touched West Africa, not so much in Senegal directly, but in its media. I watched Y’en a Marre’s video on YouTube. Could you tell me more about how Senegalese media has responded to this crisis?

SN: I think the Senegalese media acted as well and as properly as they could. At some point, it seemed to me that we had just let it all go to Western media to have a monopoly over the kind of information that is on display. I think that it is very sad when we know that there were specialists here who were working on finding a cure in collaboration with maybe the CDC or other research facilities in the West. But, more people put emphasis on the crisis and not enough focus on what is being done – not necessarily from the other side of the Atlantic – but from here. There are researchers and doctors, people who have done tremendous work to curb this crisis, but they are not portrayed as doing very much. This crisis did not go to show, in terms of media coverage, that Africa is not a country. For people who don’t have a great sense of geography, it is hard to understand the difference between Dakar and Cape Town. It takes longer for a person to travel from Dakar to Cape Town than it does for them to go from Dakar to Washington D.C. For them to not know, it is on our government to be as aggressive as possible to work with various partners to show that yes, this is a safe place to live in regardless of what the Western media is saying. Universities are very cautious. They did not believe it was safe to send students to Africa. As much as people love their lives, we love our lives as well. I would not put the lives of those I am responsible of in danger. Overall, there is too much hype. We haven’t taken much time to think about the reality of it. This semester, I tell my students that I am really proud of you. That you went beyond to break down stereotypes. If things would to happen, we are ready to respond. Of course, we, ourselves, try to live as safely as possible.

EL: Does Y’en a Marre portray a correct or popular opinion of the Ebola crisis? Their video is educational as well as political.

SN: Of course, that is a part of their mission too. It is a part of their educational mission for them to do what people need to understand. There are some people who don’t understand, there are people who don’t have access to schools and education. So, no educational media is superfluous. This is done by the TV stations. This is done by Y’en a Marre. This is done by mosques and in churches. This done by community orgs, there is a lot that does not get shared with the rest of the world. People are not reckless. People understand what is going on and what is going to help. Y’en a Marre is one of many initiatives done by African people all around to help with the situation.