Profile
Does a foreigner ever stop being foreign? Eve Zimmerman, a professor of East Asian Languages and Cultures at Wellesley College, doesn’t think so. “As a caucasian person who started studying Japanese when I was seventeen,” she remarks, “I’ll never be a bilingual speaker—I’m always going to be a foreigner speaking a foreign language.” Nonetheless, Zimmerman delved into Japanese language and culture right after graduating from high school, and she never looked back.
“My introduction to Japanese,” she told me in her office one sunny Friday afternoon, “was serendipity.” Born in Wales and raised in the States, Zimmerman was a self-described teenage Anglophile, and planned to spend a gap year between high school and college nannying for relatives in England. Shortly before she left, her uncle got a job at the British Embassy in Tokyo; he invited her to tag along, and on a whim, she said yes. She fell in love with Japan that year—with the language, with the culture, with the aesthetic.
Zimmerman went on to get her PhD in Japanese Literature from Columbia University. After teaching for several years at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles, she moved across the country with her husband and two young children. She then spent a few years teaching at Boston University before coming to Wellesley College, where she is now the chair of the East Asian Languages and Cultures department. During her graduate studies, Zimmerman gravitated towards the study of girlhood and femininity within Japanese culture. Having spent nearly a decade studying the intensely male-dominated academic commentary surrounding the writing of Kenji Nakagami, Zimmerman recalls feeling “so tired of trying to fit into this impossible group” of critics. “I wanted to do something that I could recognize,” she explains, “and that was women’s literature.”
Japanese women’s literature has continued to captivate Zimmerman to this day. She’s currently at work on her second book project, a translation-based study of the introduction of classic Western “girlhood texts” to Japan and their subsequent influence on Japanese culture. From Wuthering Heights to The Diary of Anne Frank, Zimmerman has traced how translated Western “girlhood texts” facilitated a boom in postwar Japanese women’s writing. Her second book project was actually inspired by what she describes as “the equivalent of an academic midlife crisis when I began to wonder what it was … that I could offer to students, to a community of scholars.” Zimmerman found her niche in translation. As a white woman studying Japanese culture, she has always approached her studies with great humility, treading carefully and avoiding an imperialist viewpoint. Zimmerman’s “academic midlife crisis” led her to discover her passion for translation as the intersection of her own culture and Japanese culture.
Her teaching, writing, and discussion of Japanese language and culture has been infused with respect, and this has been a significant factor in her academic success so far. With her dedication, enthusiasm, and respect, there’s no doubt that Zimmerman will continue to be a positive innovator in the field of Japanese language and literature.
Interview Transcript
Hanna Day-Tenerowicz: Could you start by telling me a bit about yourself?
Eve Zimmerman: Yes, so, Eve Zimmerman, interviewee here. So now we’re beginning…So I research Japanese culture, postwar literature, and I got into this field partly ‘cause I grew up—uh, my mother was Welsh and I was born in Wales, and my father’s American, and we—I was moved to the States when I was very little. But my mother was a professor at the time, of Latin American literature, so I think I grew up with this interest in other languages from hearing Spanish around me, and seeing the antics of many Spanish departments, ‘cause she was an academic. But my introduction to Japanese was serendipity, I just happened… I had planned a gap year, I wasn’t going to go to college and I was going to be a nanny for my relatives in England. And right at that moment, my uncle got transferred to Tokyo, to work at the British Embassy. And so they said, “Do you want to come to Japan for a year?” and I had never even—I barely knew where Japan was, I’d never studied the language. But that’s what started me off, and after that year of doing intensive Japanese, I’ve never stopped studying Japanese. In fact, I think I’ll be studying Japanese forever. There’s always another level, there’s always some other Chinese character that you’ve never seen before. And, I just fell in love, I think, with the aesthetics of Japanese culture. That was the beginning. And then I began to study literature, because I just grew up in this household where there was a lot of literature around, and poetry, and so that’s just how I ended up here, where I am now.
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HDT: How have you approached teaching, talking, and writing about East Asian cultures as an American and as a white person?
EZ: Ahh, with great humility. Actually, I think I had the equivalent of an academic midlife crisis when I began to wonder what it was, what is it that I could offer to students, to a community of scholars, and it’s actually what shaped my second book. Because, as a caucasian person who started studying Japanese when I was 17, I’ll never be a bilingual speaker—I’m always going to be a foreigner speaking a foreign language. So I thought, well what is it? Because I could never hope to catch up with my Japanese colleagues. So I realized that I was very interested in translation, and the process of that—not just theorizing translation, but actually doing translation. And I’ve done two book-length translations; one is a non-fiction, an autobiography of a guy who went and did strawberry farming in California in the ‘60s; and then the other book, the other translation I did was the story of this writer who came from the outcaste class. So I was just very interested in what it is to sit down and—it is a creative process, but how does it differ from the process of writing? And how, in a way, you have to really cleanse your mind of academic writing if you’re going to do translation, because academic writing gums up everything. So that I realized was something I could do in this field, I could translate. And then my second book project, which is based on translation, it’s about how Western classic “girlhood texts” (and “girlhood texts” I say with quotes around it), came into Japan, were translated, and how they facilitated a boom in postwar Japanese women’s writing. And, so, Wuthering Heights is the first chapter of the book, because Wuthering Heights was translated, and a number of Japanese writers have worked with the material, and the characters, and the setting of Wuthering Heights, to the point that a woman wrote a text about ten years ago that was an 800-page version of Wuthering Heights in Japanese. So it’s that sort of place, I think, having grown up being a reader of 19th-century English fiction, and I can see, is there any connection? And of course there’s going to be a connection, but is it worth—what kind of connection is it? So that’s how I thought I could contribute.
HDT: Did you find with the “girlhood texts” that anything was lost or gained in translation?
EZ: Oh, yeah, that’s a great question. I think things are transformed sometimes, beyond recognition, because I do believe translation is a creative act, and so the original is just the seed that you throw into the ground. And you don’t know what is going to grow up from that seed, it depends on the climate, and the soil conditions. Very extended way of saying that things are the same, and yet they are different, and that’s the interesting thing about it. So in the case of Wuthering Heights, you’ve got Heathcliff going from being really quite a savage character in English to a Heathcliff who weeps as Catharine is dying, who worries, who is very solicitous about her illness. He doesn’t say, “I will blight and damn you,” he says, “Don’t do that, you will make your illness worse,” and is weeping. So, you know, what is that performative side of the translated text? You know, what is it performing about, and for whom? Yeah, so those are the questions.
HDT: How do you approach the responsibility of translation? I’ve done some translation myself, and it feels like kind of a huge weight on your shoulders to speak for these other people without, like, twisting their words around. Like, it’s hard to find the balance between direct translation that is not pretty, and pretty translation that isn’t quite as direct.
EZ: Well, you know…so I had an experience with this, and I was fortunate enough to show my translation to Jay Rubin, the translator of Murakami, and so, this is a very brief example: there’s a word in Japanese that can mean “bloodline” or “family line,” and so I had translated this word as “family,” because this character is talking about a tendency in the family—“we can’t drink, in our family we’re alcoholics if we drink, so we can’t drink”—but Jay pointed out to me that I really should stick with the image of the blood. Because it’s blood that defines Japanese outcaste status, right? Like, these people have different blood from majority Japanese. So, in fact, being somewhat more literal, it’s keeping that…recognizing what’s important in the text that you have to keep alive, and what you can dispense with so that the English reader feels somewhat at home. So I don’t believe that one can be a successful translator and make it completely awkward in English, you know there’s that whole theory that that’s what you should do; I don’t believe that, because it doesn’t work!
HDT: Right, ‘cause it’s not really English then, it’s just translated English.
EZ: Exactly, yeah.
HDT: What led you to study girlhood and femininity in particular within Japanese culture?
EZ: Oh, thank you for asking! Well, I spent my graduate student years studying this writer, Kenji Nakagami, who’s writing about what seems to be a very macho culture on the surface, but is actually some kind of matriarchy underneath. But it was his writing, plus the male literary critics surrounding this author, who were controlling his legacy, and controlling the discourse about him. And I got so tired of trying to fit into this impossible group. You know, there’s just, it was just too much machismo for me after ten years of doing it. And so I wanted to do something that I could recognize, and that was women’s literature. This just happens to graduate students—you go through this almost hazing process, and you start identifying with whoever’s teaching you, and that’s what happened to me. You have to prove your worth on that ground, and my second book project was not about that. As a result, it’s taking me time to write.
HDT: Are you still working on the second project?
EZ: Yeah, yeah. So, hopefully this summer…one of the chapters I just finished is about Anne Frank’s diary and a Japanese woman writer, Yōko Ogawa, and how Ogawa uses The Diary of Anne Frank in her work, and how she uses it and what it means to her in her writing. So that’s the latest thing.
HDT: Do you identify as a feminist? And if so, when did you begin to call yourself a feminist, and if not, why not?
EZ: Wow, that’s a very good question. I mean, I suppose I started pretty young, and I think it’s ‘cause I had a working mother who was very good at pursuing the dream that she had of being a professional and having her own independent existence, so to me that seemed, by default, just the way to be. But I’ll tell you, I think the time I really became a feminist happened when I was an assistant professor, and you know, it was post structuralist days, and the feminists of the seventies, those critics, those original madwomen in the attic critics, started coming under—they themselves were being subjected to criticism, that their work was heterosexist, and it was classist, and I started going back and reading the old journals, some of the old feminist journals that came out in the seventies, from those co-operatives, and I thought, “This stuff is just great.” And I think it was then, after growing up with it, and then having to look back, and read about it and think about it, that I really became a feminist.
HDT: Do you remember what your first experience interacting with another culture was, in any context?
EZ: Oh, that’s a good question…yeah, any context…oh, well I was a terrible Anglophile as a teenager, because I thought that being Welsh and going to Wales and eating Welsh cakes was the height of civilization. I really, I just loved Wales. And I had a grandfather I adored, and he lived until I was about 12 or 13, and so I had this whole phase where England was the homeland. And it’s funny, now when I go to England, I feel very much a stranger there. I have no…English culture seems rather uptight and negative. So, yeah, I think it was my Welsh mother and my Welsh grandfather, that must have been it.
HDT: Did you ever feel like you were in between two cultures having moved from Wales to the United States, or did you just grow up feeling like you fit in in America?
EZ: Oh, I think I was American. Except I did have this mother who didn’t know what sports were, and we never went to Disneyland, and we didn’t do a lot of those things. But, I think I felt very comfortable growing up. The times I’ve felt in between cultures is when I’ve lived in Japan for a long time and come back to the States, because then I really feel a bit estranged. I get so used to living and speaking in a certain way, and behaving in a certain way. I come back, and my sisters will tease me, “Why are you speaking in such a high voice?” So, but all in a good way, yeah.
HDT: What do you think is the hardest thing to get used to when you’re transitioning into living in Japanese culture and then when you’re transitioning back to American culture?
EZ: Oh gosh, so many things…yeah. Well, how to be female and assertive while speaking Japanese is difficult, Hanna, it really is. Because it’s, you know, here we’re sort of trained to, you know, you have to speak up, and you have to walk into the room and make sure people hear you. But there’s a way to be incredibly assertive in Japanese as a woman without sounding or acting like an American. So that’s always the challenge for me. It’s hard. I don’t know if I’m successful. But what I’ve done is find female role models, so women who are somewhat senior to me, or Japanese women, and I listen to the way that they speak, and I copy that.
[…]
HDT: Do you prefer to be traveling, or do you prefer to have a home base and just kind of staying in one place?
EZ: Oh, yeah, that’s…you know, here’s the thing—I like to be at home, and then I get very restless. So, I’m afraid that’s happening to me at Wellesley a bit. I’m getting restless, I’ve been here fifteen years, and I’ve never stayed anywhere for longer than five years before this! Because we moved a lot when I was a kid, so I, yeah, I think I like to be able to have a home base but also roam around. And I feel as if I’ve traveled a lot, but my kids are just leaving home now, and so this could be the time to do more traveling.
HDT: If you could give your undergraduate self one piece of advice, what would it be?
EZ: Oh, gosh, yeah…have more confidence in my abilities. I would tell all my undergraduates…there was Helen Miren, I was just talking to Thom Hodge in Russian…so, Helen Miren has this quote, that is, “To be young and beautiful is to be miserable and paranoid.” I thought that was so funny! And he’s designing—we’re doing how to spread the word about, promoting humanities at the College. And he said that, you might be young and beautiful, but then you do waste an awful lot of time just feeling you might be beautiful but you’re worthless, or you know, yeah, I think there’s still that feeling among women, of insecurity, you know, young women. And so I would turn to myself and say, “Go and be proud, be confident. Don’t waste time.”
HDT: What is your favorite thing about American culture and what is your favorite thing about Japanese culture, if you could pick some aspect?
EZ: Oh, yeah…American culture is messy, and Japanese culture is clean. And so what I mean by that is, what I like about America is the openness, when I come back from Japan I notice how many different kinds of people are interacting with each other—yeah, sometimes it’s a disaster—but, you know, there is this lack of…things aren’t determined, at some level in America, it’s more rough and tumble. And in Japan, there’s an unwritten set of rules and behaviors, and sometimes it’s constricting. […] You get tired of, if you speak Japanese, you begin to expect people to treat you like any normal person, but there’s still always this emphasis on racial difference or cultural difference, so I find that kind of constricting.
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HDT: How many times have you been to Japan to live or study?
EZ: A few long times where, you know, I did graduate research. I would say I’ve lived there about…not quite ten years, but on and off. So, these days, with this job (hello, Wellesley College), and the family obligations, it’s been harder to go. I go for short periods, so last year I was there for a month in April, and this summer I’m going for a month in July, to do a research project with my sister. So, but, you know, one of these days soon I’d love to go and spend more time there, just be there for two years, because one year seems too short. But two years would be great.
HDT: What would you want to do there?
EZ: Oh, I’d probably do, I’d love to do a Fulbright with some teaching in it, because then you meet people and there’s a context, and work on my third project, whatever that’ll be. That’s what I’d love to do. It’s a great place to live.
HDT: What’s your favorite thing about living there?
EZ: Oh, my dear…It’s probably the way you discover things in Tokyo. You know, you’ll be in a place that looks like a concrete jungle, and you’ll be walking down the street, and then there’s suddenly a garden or a shrine, or you see a store that’s selling beautiful edo fabrics. And it’s just these moments of discovery […] There’s an attention to…there’s a kind of care given to how one lives in the world, and it’s aesthetic, again, it’s that sense…and I just go, “Aaahhh! So now I know why I’m so interested in this.”
HDT: How did you find yourself at Wellesley College?
EZ: Oh, yes, how did I get here? I didn’t go to a small liberal arts college, so it wasn’t on my radar. You know, I got here, again out of luck. I was teaching at USC in LA, and my husband couldn’t find a job, I was supporting him. And then he got a job at MIT. So we, I’ve been incredibly lucky. First I was at BU, I had a job there for three or four years, and a job opened up here. And it’s just been great. And I’ll tell you what I love most about it, it’s really the students here. Because I was at BU and it was hard to get students to do the reading or take an interest. And they were not served very well by the university at the time, I think it’s much much better now, but I just remember the first day I came to Wellesley it was winter, and I came here with the kids, they were playing, they were very young then, two and four, and I just remember seeing the garden, the Hunnewell topiary…and I thought, “Where am I?!” I got the job offer and I said yes. Much, much better than where I’d been.
HDT: What is your favorite thing about Wellesley, and what’s your least favorite thing?
EZ: Oh, so, the students are my favorite thing. I know it sounds hackneyed, but I was thinking this semester what I’ve enjoyed most, and really it’s working with the students, and with Katherine, and Sophia. And it’s not just teaching students in one course, it’s getting to know them, really intellectually from the time they—you know, maybe they come to one of my classes as a sophomore, then maybe they come back again—and so it’s seeing students growing. I think that’s…you know, and I don’t mean in some sentimental way, I mean in concrete, intellectual terms—how they write, how they think, what they feel they can do—it’s all that. I also have very nice colleagues in this department. So that I enjoy, a lot. So, what do I like least about Wellesley…oh, dear Wellesley…dear Wellesley, if I were to write a letter to Wellesley College, I’d say, “Please learn to change with the times, and to be more responsive to new ideas.”
HDT: I’m sure a lot of the students would agree with you there!
EZ: Yeah, you know, I do have a history now, fifteen years, and I just wish there were a quicker decision-making process, or a way to do innovative things without lots of plodding along.
HDT: Forming a committee…
EZ: I think lots of educational institutions have this problem, it’s not just here. […] Here, I know what I’d do! Get rid of the departments. ‘Cause I think a lot of the problem comes from these entrenched departments, and faculty being territorial, and if we could just take the walls down, it would be interesting, wouldn’t it?
HDT: What are your thoughts on the new admissions policy regarding gender?
EZ: I say the more the merrier. I think it’s great! I mean, I don’t know how many students it will impact, but I must say I’m very proud to be at this institution and having Wellesley do that. I think that took courage, because the alums can be very conservative, or they are worried about it. But it’s interesting, I went to speak to an alumna club in Santa Barbara, and you would think that that would be a pretty conservative place, and they couldn’t care less about gender. You know, somebody raised a question after my talk, and everybody else said, “Oh, it’s not an issue, who cares?” So I thought, “Wow! This is a very good group.” And if this is representative of Wellesley’s alumna body then I’m not worried at all. […] I don’t think it’s going to change life here that much, it’s just the way it is now. Your generation doesn’t mind about that!
HDT: No! Although surprisingly, a few people do, which was very strange. I don’t know if you’ve heard of Yik Yak, it’s this anonymous thing […] and some people, after they released the decision, were on Yik Yak saying like, “I can’t believe this. I’m gonna transfer.” They literally said that, and we were all like, “Woah!” And some people were like, “My right to call this a sisterhood feels infringed upon.”
EZ: Ugh, what a snooze, really. Yeah. I mean, the interesting thing is that in East Asia and in South Asia, there is a third gender sometimes. [Someone] was telling me about the third gender in India, and it’s a thing, it’s just been there for a long time. And in Japan you have men who live as women in the theater world, you know, it’s just, they perform female roles, but in real life they live in a female way. So there isn’t this split saying, well I just do it on stage but I don’t do it at home, no, they live that way, and they identify that way. So, I think in some cultures, it’s just not a big deal anyway.
HDT: That’s really interesting! So Japan tends to be pretty accepting about that?
EZ: Well, again, it’s repressed. Right, so there are certain ways to express one’s sexuality that are accepted, and there are other forums or other areas of life in which you can’t. So, I would say businesses are pretty darn conservative, but then you look at some of the traditional edo period premodern prints, and there’s a lot about…I mean, I’ve seen one set of prints that’s about a transgender man, and it’s no big deal. So, again, it’s very context-oriented.
HDT: How does Japan feel about Queer people or homosexuality?
EZ: Well, it’s coming out now, Hanna, in the sense that I would say that now there’s more of a movement. And I had a former student that went to Kyoto, and she made a connection to a lesbian bar coffeehouse, and she worked there and met people, and we actually had another student who did a thesis on this topic and was interviewing people about their attitudes on homosexuality. So it’s definitely something that has arrived. And I know also that the first two women in Japan just got married in Tokyo. It was six months ago, and there were a lot of photographs, you know, there was big press about it, and it was all over the web. And they both were wearing these quite traditional dresses, you know, both of them were in white dresses. So, yeah, I think it’s gonna take time, because it’s never like America where it’s all on the surface, but people just kind of know that about other people and I don’t think it’s such a huge deal. But it’s not out in front of the cameras the way it is in this country.
HDT: Do you think that slows down their ability to make cultural or institutional changes? Or do you think that the United States is just as slow?
EZ: No, I think they’re behind. Definitely. And because the U.S., because you have these social movements, it’s easier to make changes. We’re good about that! I mean, not all of the states are, but…Yeah.